diff --git a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl.rb b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl.rb
index 7bc3e1176..6bbba9c8e 100644
--- a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl.rb
+++ b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl.rb
@@ -2,6 +2,7 @@
 require 'logstash/errors'
 require "treetop"
 require "logstash/compiler/treetop_monkeypatches"
+require "logstash/compiler/lscl/helpers"
 require "logstash/config/string_escape"
 
 java_import org.logstash.config.ir.DSL
@@ -10,59 +11,7 @@ java_import org.logstash.common.SourceWithMetadata
 module LogStashCompilerLSCLGrammar; module LogStash; module Compiler; module LSCL; module AST
   PROCESS_ESCAPE_SEQUENCES = :process_escape_sequences
 
-  # Helpers for parsing LSCL files
-  module Helpers
-    def source_meta
-      line, column = line_and_column
-      org.logstash.common.SourceWithMetadata.new(base_protocol, base_id, line, column, self.text_value)
-    end
-
-    def base_source_with_metadata=(value)
-      set_meta(:base_source_with_metadata, value)
-    end
-    
-    def base_source_with_metadata
-      get_meta(:base_source_with_metadata)
-    end
-
-    def base_protocol
-      self.base_source_with_metadata.protocol
-    end
-
-    def base_id
-      self.base_source_with_metadata.id
-    end
-
-    def compose(*statements)
-      compose_for(section_type.to_sym).call(source_meta, *statements)
-    end
-
-    def compose_for(section_sym)
-      if section_sym == :filter
-        jdsl.method(:iComposeSequence)
-      else
-        jdsl.method(:iComposeParallel)
-      end
-    end
-
-    def line_and_column
-      start = self.interval.first
-      [self.input.line_of(start), self.input.column_of(start)]
-    end
-
-    def jdsl
-      org.logstash.config.ir.DSL
-    end
-
-    def self.jdsl
-      org.logstash.config.ir.DSL
-    end
-    
-    AND_METHOD = jdsl.method(:eAnd)
-    OR_METHOD = jdsl.method(:eOr)
-  end
-  
-  class Node < Treetop::Runtime::SyntaxNode
+    class Node < Treetop::Runtime::SyntaxNode
     include Helpers
     
     def section_type
diff --git a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl/helpers.rb b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl/helpers.rb
new file mode 100644
index 000000000..b9f2bf029
--- /dev/null
+++ b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/compiler/lscl/helpers.rb
@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+# encoding: utf-8
+
+module LogStashCompilerLSCLGrammar; module LogStash; module Compiler; module LSCL; module AST
+  # Helpers for parsing LSCL files
+  module Helpers
+    def source_meta
+      line, column = line_and_column
+      org.logstash.common.SourceWithMetadata.new(base_protocol, base_id, line, column, self.text_value)
+    end
+
+    def base_source_with_metadata=(value)
+      set_meta(:base_source_with_metadata, value)
+    end
+    
+    def base_source_with_metadata
+      get_meta(:base_source_with_metadata)
+    end
+
+    def base_protocol
+      self.base_source_with_metadata ? self.base_source_with_metadata.protocol : 'config_ast'
+    end
+
+    def base_id
+      self.base_source_with_metadata ? self.base_source_with_metadata.id : 'config_ast'
+    end
+
+    def compose(*statements)
+      compose_for(section_type.to_sym).call(source_meta, *statements)
+    end
+
+    def compose_for(section_sym)
+      if section_sym == :filter
+        jdsl.method(:iComposeSequence)
+      else
+        jdsl.method(:iComposeParallel)
+      end
+    end
+
+    def line_and_column
+      start = self.interval.first
+      [self.input.line_of(start), self.input.column_of(start)]
+    end
+
+    def jdsl
+      org.logstash.config.ir.DSL
+    end
+
+    def self.jdsl
+      org.logstash.config.ir.DSL
+    end
+    
+    AND_METHOD = jdsl.method(:eAnd)
+    OR_METHOD = jdsl.method(:eOr)
+  end
+end; end; end; end; end
\ No newline at end of file
diff --git a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/config/config_ast.rb b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/config/config_ast.rb
index 750550074..f4cd5d1c4 100644
--- a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/config/config_ast.rb
+++ b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/config/config_ast.rb
@@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
 # encoding: utf-8
 require 'logstash/errors'
+require "logstash/compiler/lscl/helpers"
 require "treetop"
 
 require "logstash/compiler/treetop_monkeypatches"
@@ -32,6 +33,8 @@ module LogStash; module Config; module AST
   end
 
   class Node < Treetop::Runtime::SyntaxNode
+    include LogStashCompilerLSCLGrammar::LogStash::Compiler::LSCL::AST::Helpers
+
     def text_value_for_comments
       text_value.gsub(/[\r\n]/, " ")
     end
@@ -189,12 +192,12 @@ module LogStash; module Config; module AST
       # If any parent is a Plugin, this must be a codec.
 
       if attributes.elements.nil?
-        return "plugin(#{plugin_type.inspect}, #{plugin_name.inspect})" << (plugin_type == "codec" ? "" : "\n")
+        return "plugin(#{plugin_type.inspect}, #{plugin_name.inspect}, #{source_meta.line}, #{source_meta.column})" << (plugin_type == "codec" ? "" : "\n")
       else
         settings = attributes.recursive_select(Attribute).collect(&:compile).reject(&:empty?)
 
         attributes_code = "LogStash::Util.hash_merge_many(#{settings.map { |c| "{ #{c} }" }.join(", ")})"
-        return "plugin(#{plugin_type.inspect}, #{plugin_name.inspect}, #{attributes_code})" << (plugin_type == "codec" ? "" : "\n")
+        return "plugin(#{plugin_type.inspect}, #{plugin_name.inspect}, #{source_meta.line}, #{source_meta.column}, #{attributes_code})" << (plugin_type == "codec" ? "" : "\n")
       end
     end
 
@@ -211,7 +214,7 @@ module LogStash; module Config; module AST
       when "codec"
         settings = attributes.recursive_select(Attribute).collect(&:compile).reject(&:empty?)
         attributes_code = "LogStash::Util.hash_merge_many(#{settings.map { |c| "{ #{c} }" }.join(", ")})"
-        return "plugin(#{plugin_type.inspect}, #{plugin_name.inspect}, #{attributes_code})"
+        return "plugin(#{plugin_type.inspect}, #{plugin_name.inspect}, #{source_meta.line}, #{source_meta.column}, #{attributes_code})"
       end
     end
 
diff --git a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/filter_delegator.rb b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/filter_delegator.rb
index 9cd1b92d7..96ad8e501 100644
--- a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/filter_delegator.rb
+++ b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/filter_delegator.rb
@@ -14,6 +14,8 @@ module LogStash
     ]
     def_delegators :@filter, *DELEGATED_METHODS
 
+    attr_reader :id
+
     def initialize(logger, klass, metric, execution_context, plugin_args)
       @logger = logger
       @klass = klass
diff --git a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/pipeline.rb b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/pipeline.rb
index 871510b6a..8e2ef2653 100644
--- a/logstash-core/lib/logstash/pipeline.rb
+++ b/logstash-core/lib/logstash/pipeline.rb
@@ -107,16 +107,23 @@ module LogStash; class BasePipeline
     LogStash::Compiler.compile_sources(sources_with_metadata, @settings)
   end
 
-  def plugin(plugin_type, name, *args)
+  def plugin(plugin_type, name, line, column, *args)
     @plugin_counter += 1
 
     # Collapse the array of arguments into a single merged hash
     args = args.reduce({}, &:merge)
 
-    id = if args["id"].nil? || args["id"].empty?
-      args["id"] = "#{@config_hash}-#{@plugin_counter}"
-    else
-      args["id"]
+    # Pull the ID from LIR to keep IDs consistent between the two representations
+    id = lir.graph.vertices.filter do |v| 
+      v.source_with_metadata && 
+      v.source_with_metadata.line == line && 
+      v.source_with_metadata.column == column
+    end.findFirst.get.id
+
+    args["id"] = id # some code pulls the id out of the args
+
+    if !id
+      raise ConfigurationError, "Could not determine ID for #{plugin_type}/#{plugin_name}"
     end
 
     raise ConfigurationError, "Two plugins have the id '#{id}', please fix this conflict" if @plugins_by_id[id]
diff --git a/logstash-core/spec/logstash/pipeline_spec.rb b/logstash-core/spec/logstash/pipeline_spec.rb
index e63e102cb..c7fdc033d 100644
--- a/logstash-core/spec/logstash/pipeline_spec.rb
+++ b/logstash-core/spec/logstash/pipeline_spec.rb
@@ -365,6 +365,30 @@ describe LogStash::Pipeline do
     end
   end
 
+  context "with no explicit ids declared" do
+    before(:each) do
+      allow(LogStash::Plugin).to receive(:lookup).with("input", "dummyinput").and_return(DummyInput)
+      allow(LogStash::Plugin).to receive(:lookup).with("codec", "plain").and_return(DummyCodec)
+      allow(LogStash::Plugin).to receive(:lookup).with("filter", "dummyfilter").and_return(DummyFilter)
+      allow(LogStash::Plugin).to receive(:lookup).with("output", "dummyoutput").and_return(::LogStash::Outputs::DummyOutput)
+    end
+
+    let(:config) { "input { dummyinput {} } filter { dummyfilter {} } output { dummyoutput {} }"}
+    let(:pipeline) { mock_pipeline_from_string(config) }
+
+    after do
+      # If you don't start/stop the pipeline it won't release the queue lock and will
+      # cause the suite to fail :(
+      pipeline.close
+    end
+    
+    it "should use LIR provided IDs" do
+      expect(pipeline.inputs.first.id).to eq(pipeline.lir.input_plugin_vertices.first.id)
+      expect(pipeline.filters.first.id).to eq(pipeline.lir.filter_plugin_vertices.first.id)
+      expect(pipeline.outputs.first.id).to eq(pipeline.lir.output_plugin_vertices.first.id)
+    end
+  end
+
   context "compiled flush function" do
     describe "flusher thread" do
       before(:each) do